Proiect SEMPER FIDELIS
  • Prima pagina
  • FORUM
  • Despre noi
  • Statut
  • Galeria foto
  • Download-uri

Remember me      Forgot password?    Signup

Forums

Proiect SEMPER FIDELIS :: Forums :: Securitate nationala :: General
 
<< Previous thread | Next thread >>
Noua viziune de GEOPOLITICA ACTUALA
Go to page
  <<        >>  
Moderators: ex-ad, colonelul, echo, truepride, dorobant, spk, Radu89, Pârvu Florin, justme, Mihais, Resboiu
Author Post
Pârvu Florin
Wed May 08 2019, 02:43PM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
apkah wrote ...

CENTRE ALE SCLAVIEI SEXUALE IN REGATUL UNIT: ROTHERHAM, ROCHDALE, NEWCASTLE, TELFORD….
15 Martie 2018 · prin bogdancalehari · în Fără categorie · Un comentariu

Intre 1997 si 2013, la Rotherham, in Marea Britanie, 1500 de copii, in totalitate fetite albe, au devenit victime ale exploatarii si sclaviei sexuale. 1500 de copii in 16 ani! Nu in Thailanda, in Marea Britanie, in orasul Rotherham – 250 000 de locuitori. Timp de 16 ani politia a stiut totul! Si serviciile sociale au stiut totul! Si presa locala a stiut totul! Cu totii au pastrat insa tacerea! 16 ani! Fetite de 11 ani stropite cu benzina si obligate sa priveasca violuri in serie, sub amenintarea ca vor fi incendiate! Apoi, violate la randul lor! In serie! Fetite, fete, minore de 11, 12, 14 ani violate de zeci de barbati sub amenintarea armelor de foc! Batute si torturate! 100 de copii nascuti in urma acestor violuri! Copii nascuti de copii!

Timp de 16 ani, politia, serviciile sociale, presa, autoritatile locale au pastrat tacerea. In Marea Britanie! Au stiut si au tacut! Din cauza de rasism! Pentru ca predatorii sexuali, stapanii de copii sclavi, erau, toti, “asiatici”. Nu, nu coreeni, chinezi, japonezi, vietnamezi, nu! Musulmani pakistanezi! Timp de 16 ani, la Rotherham toti au tacut ca sa nu fie invinuiti de rasism! Au tacut in numele anti-rasismului! Pentru ca “asiaticii” violau si traficau sexual copii albi! Nu in Tailanda, in Regatul Unit al Marii Britanii! 1500 de minore albe! Cand, dupa 16 ani, presa de la Londra a rupt tacerea, enormitatea acestei cifre a socat si bulversat tara. Acum, Rotherham e sintagma – Rotherham child sexual exploitation!

LINK


Detectives investigating historic allegations of child sexual abuse and exploitation in Rotherham have arrested 40 people over the last two months, the National Crime Agency (NCA) has revealed.
Thirty-eight men and two women are under investigation after 13 victims came forward alleging abuse between 1997 and 2015, the agency said.
The alleged victims were aged between 11 and 26 at the time the offences are said to have taken place.
The probe is part of Operation Stovewood, the NCA's investigation into Rotherham grooming gangs. The operation has previously led to 14 men being jailed.
Chief investigating officer Carl Vessey-Baitson said: “Arresting such a large number of individuals as part of one Stovewood sub-operation shows our desire to listen to victims and bring offenders to justice is not wavering.
Stovewood is a challenging and complex investigation, with victims and survivors re-living abuse that took place many years ago.

LINK

apkah wrote ...

CENTRE ALE SCLAVIEI SEXUALE IN REGATUL UNIT: ROTHERHAM, ROCHDALE, NEWCASTLE, TELFORD….
15 Martie 2018 · prin bogdancalehari · în Fără categorie · Un comentariu


Daca BBC tace, si tace, dupa Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle va fi ingropat si Telford. Nu si bandele de pakistanezi. Oricum, Scotland Yard a refuzat deja sa recunoasca existenta bandelor de predatori sexuali musulmani, desi un studiu elaborat de doi cercetatori britanici de origine pakistaneza arata ca 85% dintre predatorii sexuali sunt pakistanezi! Iar actualii spioni rusi ii otravesc, unul dupa altul, pe fostii spioni rusi. BBC e ocupat. Guvernul e ocupat. Scotland Yard Yard e ocupat. Cu rusii si cu “extrema dreapta”. De Telford nu se va mai vorbi nimic in cateva zile.

Mai ales ca, treptat, aia care ar fi continuat sa o faca sunt redusi la tacere: pagina de Facebook a miscarii “Britain First” a fost inchisa, iar lideri ei au fost condamnati la inchisoare, pentru “discurs ce indeamna la ura impotriva minoritatilor.” Regatul Unit isi astupa gura in numele si pentru binele diversitatii! Peste mormintele lui Becky Watson si Vicky Round va fi trantita lespedea grea a tacerii. Ele nu figureaza pe lista selecta a #Me Too. Nu vor deveni cauza pentru feministe. Nu le-a pus mana pe fund un mare producator de la Hollywood, le-au violat si le-au transformat in sclave sexuale “asiaticii”.

LINK

BBC nu tace, se poate verifica usor pe site-ul lor, ma rog... nici cine stie ce mari anchete jurnalistice legate de caz n-au facut, e de stat si e finantata din taxa tv obligatoriu de platit, deci sunt putori, dar sunt o multime de alte surse de informare care au investigat si au scris despre povestea asta, intre timp un numar de ofiteri de politie si politicieni locali si-au dat demisia, iar in ce priveste Britain First, in locul in care traiesc se spune ca

Mark you this, Bassanio, The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. ...
William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

fara ca asta sa-l faca mai putin diavol...

apkah wrote ...

CENTRE ALE SCLAVIEI SEXUALE IN REGATUL UNIT: ROTHERHAM, ROCHDALE, NEWCASTLE, TELFORD….
15 Martie 2018 · prin bogdancalehari · în Fără categorie · Un comentariu
“Fetele astea abuzate, din Rotherham si de aiurea, ar trebui sa-si tina gura! Pentru binele diversitatii” – Naz Shah, deputata laburista

LINK


In ce o priveste pe fata aia, Naz Shah, inteleg ca are o multime de probleme, de sanatate si de sanatate mentala,

Born in Bradford, her father left when she was six years old. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan by her mother, Zoora Shah, to escape her mother's abusive partner, where she had an arranged marriage. When she was 20, her mother was convicted of murder, attempted murder, solicitation to murder and forgery in relation to the man who abused her, and served 7 years in prison.
During the early 2010s, Shah was injured in a hit-and-run collision, which has left her with ongoing periodic severe nerve pain which requires hospitalisation.

LINK

vad ca a fost si suspendata doi ani din functie pentru remarci antisemite, asadar relax! prostia si nebunia sunt niste constante universale ale umanitatii...

Oricum ar fi, faptul ca toata povestea asta, mai mult decat tragica, incontestabil! si ale carei cauze profunde trebuiesc descifrate si eliminate,

The failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; fear that the perpetrators' ethnicity would trigger allegations of racism and damage community relations; the Labour council's reluctance to challenge a Labour-voting ethnic minority; lack of a child-centred focus; a desire to protect the town's reputation; and lack of training and resources.
LINK

e folosita de catre anumiti politicieni si formatori de opinie ca justificare pentru un discurs al urii fata de o intreaga comunitate, rai si buni la gramada, mi se pare mai mult decat condamnabil si periculos, si cred ca atunci cand judeca situatii ca asta, publicul ar trebui sa faca apel mai putin la instincte si mai mult la ratiune.





[ Edited Wed May 08 2019, 07:48PM ]
Back to top
truepride
Thu May 09 2019, 05:03PM
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Registered Member #996
Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 11:32PM

Posts: 3434
Thanked 254 time in 183 post
Regasesc acest discurs to mai des si nu stiu de ce prinde atat de usor. Intr-o parte desigur dispare o generatie, o generatie care a stiu ce-i aia razboi, ce-i aia stea galbena in piept, oroare, teama frica. Pe celalata parte generatia care vine este ceva mai ignoranta si cu toate acestea nu as trece in grupul celor care afirma "pe vremea mea se facea scoala, dar tinerii de azi...". Totusi o ignoranta vizibila exista la noua generatie, fara a generaliza acel sofism pe care il reduc la Sofocle a fost grec si Sofocle a fost filozof. Rezulta ca toti grecii sunt filozofi.
Ingrijorator as spune plus un colos informational precum internetul care poate deservi unei asemnea propagande.
Stau si ma gandesc, fac un pas in spate, cine are de castigat din sfaramarea unui proiect precum cel european, pe criterii rasiale, xenofobe, nationaliste? Intrebarea find retorica pentru Europa de Est orice varianta inlocuitoare a UE-ului imi provoaca frisoane.
Back to top
Pârvu Florin
Mon May 13 2019, 05:01PM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
truepride wrote ...

Regasesc acest discurs tot mai des si nu stiu de ce prinde atat de usor.


Sunt o multime de motive pentru care se intampla asta, unul dintre ei fiind faptul ca doi termeni diferiti, nationalism si fascism, au ajuns sa fie confundati, evident din cauza unor politicieni interesati.

Nationalismul e bun, loialitatea fata de o natiune imi permite sa ma simt parte a ceva mai mare decat mine, asta e o nevoie fundamentala a oricarui om, nationalismul imi permite sa colaborez cu ceilalti membri ai natiunii mele pentru binele nostru comun, chiar daca in decursul vietii voi ajunge sa cunosc personal foarte putini dintre acestia.

Spre deosebire insa de nationalism, care imi spune ca natiunea mea e unica si ca am obligatii fata de ea, fascismul imi spune ca natiunea mea e exceptionala si ca e singura entitate de pe pamantul asta fata de care am obligatii, ca nu trebuie sa-mi pese de nimeni si de nimic in afara de natiunea mea, lucru gresit, evident, caci oamenii au o multime de alte identitati, afilieri si loialitati, fata de o multime de alte grupuri si idei, pot fi simultan credinciosi natiunii, dar si familiei, comunitatii, profesiei, umanitatii in ansamblul ei, adevarului, binelui...

Evident ca o astfel de situatie creaza complicatii si conflicte interioare pentru oricine, si asta cred ca e motivul pentru care fascismul e si asa de seducator, el elimina toate aceste conflicte, simplificand extrem de mult viata interioara si alegerile pe care trebuie sa le faca un om, insistand ca natiunea e singura entitate si idee fata de care am obligatii, daca natiunea imi cere sa imi sacrific familia, daca natiunea imi cere sa sacrific milioane de oameni, daca natiunea imi cere sa sacrific adevarul si binele, ei bine, atunci trebuie sa le sacrific pe toate acestea in numele ei, al natiunii, al entitatii supreme!

Lucrurile devin si mai clare cand te uiti la ce repere foloseste fascismul pentru conceptele de bine si rau: bine e ce e de folos natiunii, rau e ce ii e daunator, adevarul si libertatea individuala nu conteaza absolut deloc in toata naratiunea asta!

truepride wrote ...

Ingrijorator as spune plus un colos informational precum internetul care poate deservi unei asemnea propagande.


Asta e si motivul pentru care dictaturile revin, intr-o forma noua, adaptata zilelor noastre, actualul avant al tehnologiei informatiei ne face sa traim niste vremuri extrem de periculoase pentru democratie.

Fundamental, politica inseamna efortul de a controla mijloacele de productie, pamantul in epoca agrara, masinile in epoca industriala. Dictatura inseamna ca prea mult din aceste mijloace erau sub controlul unei persoane sau al unei elite.

In zilele noastre, pamantul si masinile au fost inlocuite de informatie ca cel mai important mijloc de productie, implicit politica s-a transformat in efortul de a controla fluxurile de date, si dictatura zilelor noastre inseamna ca prea mult din aceasta informatie e in mainile unei minoritati restranse.

Odata cu aparitia si dezvoltarea inteligentei artificiale si a algoritmilor prin care computerele pot invata, si chestia asta care suna a SF pentru multi a ajuns la niste performante greu de inchipuit pana in urma cu numai cativa ani, se poate ajunge la situatia in care cantitati enorme de date pot fi procesate eficient intr-un singur loc, sistemul stiind despre un individ mai mult decat stie el insusi, si nu doar ca se poate prezice comportamentul cuiva intr-o anume situatie, dar, prin intermediul celei mai personalizate persuasiuni ii pot fi manipulate sentimentele, emotiile, fricile, ura, vanitatea...

Ganditi-va la doua lucruri:

1. fiecaruia dintre noi ne place sa credem ca suntem unici, in realitate lucrurile sunt diferite, exista cam 40-50 de tipare psihologice mari, deci putem fi pusi destul de usor intr-o cutiuta sau intr-un sertar, cu multi altii ca noi langa noi.

2. democratia si alegerile sunt intr-o masura mai mare decat suntem dispusi sa recunoastem despre sentimente, si nu despre ratiune, in timpul campaniilor electorale suntem intrebati mai degraba "Ce simti?" decat "Ce crezi?"

si in actualul context devine din ce in ce mai usor pentru politicieni sa ne manipuleze.

Da, stiu, e naspa... si se intampla deja... LINK




[ Edited Tue May 14 2019, 01:08AM ]
Back to top
mobydick
Wed May 15 2019, 08:01PM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...

truepride wrote ...

Ingrijorator as spune plus un colos informational precum internetul care poate deservi unei asemnea propagande.

Asta e si motivul pentru care dictaturile revin, intr-o forma noua, adaptata zilelor noastre, actualul avant al tehnologiei informatiei ne face sa traim niste vremuri extrem de periculoase pentru democratie.
bla, bla, bla...
Distinsi domni, cu tot respectul pentru efortul depus in expunerea acestor elucubratii, permiteti-mi sa va spun ca bateti campii cu multa gratie. Sper, sincer, sa nu aveti functii de decizie în stat...
Back to top
Pârvu Florin
Wed May 15 2019, 09:14PM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
Nu, stimate domn, eu cel putin nu am nicio functie de decizie in general, cu atat mai putin in stat, asadar puteti fi linistit, daca va fi ca lumea si Romania sa se duca in cap nu se va duce din cauza mea.

Si as fi extrem de curios ca, daca aveti alta opinie, sa imi/ne impartasiti din experienta dumneavoastra, precum si argumentele pe care le aveti pentru o atat de categorica afirmatie.
Suntem aici sa invatam unii de la altii, si poate stiti dumneavostra ceva ce eu/noi nu stim...

Multumesc anticipat!

Edit: pana una alta, haideti sa va dau dumneavoastra si cititorilor acestui topic o informatie care va va ajuta sa va faceti o idee unde a ajuns machine-learning.

Jocul de sah a fost timp de milenii o competite a inteligentei si creativitatii, atribute presupus specific umane.

In 1997, campionul mondial de atunci, Garry Kasparov, a mancat pentru prima data bataie de la un computer, Deep Blue de la IBM.

In cativa ani, oamenii au devenit complet irelevanti in competitia asta.

In 2017, o alta borna a fost depasita, programul Google Alpha Zero a invins programul Stockfish 8.

Stockfish 8 a fost campion mondial un an inainte si era un program care inmagazina toate partidele, toate strategiile, toate mutarile care s-au jucat vreodata si au fost inregistrate.

La debutul partidelor, Google Alpha Zero nu stia decat miscarile elementare ale pieselor, dar era inzestrat cu toate principiile de machine-learning care il ajutau sa invete.

Stiti cat timp i-a trebuit lui Google Alpha Zero sa invete sah suficient de bine incat sa invinga cel mai performant program de sah?

Patru ore. LINK




[ Edited Wed May 15 2019, 10:25PM ]
Back to top
mobydick
Wed May 15 2019, 10:50PM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...
...as fi extrem de curios ca, daca aveti alta opinie, sa imi/ne impartasiti din experienta dumneavoastra, precum si argumentele...

Nu este de vina roata pentru aparitia carelor de lupta dar nu cred ca poate fi contestat aportul ei in evolutia civilizatiei. Si exemplele ar putea continua dar nu-si au rostul pentru ca ar insemna sa va subestimez inteligenta, ceea ce nu intentionez.
Orice sistem totalitar s-a bazat pe lipsa de informare a maselor, criza sociala si manipularea mediocritatii, nicidecum pe dezvoltarea tehnologica. Nu radioul a adus comunismul in lume asa dupa cum nici cinematograful nu se face vinovat de aparitia fascismului. Putem fi linistiti, asadar, in privinta dezvoltarii tehnologiei dar nu acelasi lucru pot spune despre accentuarea analfabetismului si a inechitatilor sociale.
Stimă!
Back to top
Pârvu Florin
Wed May 15 2019, 11:16PM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
mobydick wrote ...

Nu este de vina roata pentru aparitia carelor de lupta dar nu cred ca poate fi contestat aportul ei in evolutia civilizatiei. Si exemplele ar putea continua


Total de acord, tehnologia in sine e neutra, problema e cine si in ce scopuri o foloseste.
Si e o lege a dezvoltarii umane ca o tehnologie noua sa fie folosita de catre elitele care o au la indemana pentru dominatie.

A trebuit intai sa aruncam doua bombe nucleare peste doua orase si dupa aia sa ne bunghim ca putem sa facem si electricitate folosind fisiunea nucleara.

Deocamdata, tehnologie noua si trendul asta e, care ziceam mai sus...

mobydick wrote ...

...dar nu acelasi lucru pot spune despre accentuarea analfabetismului si a inechitatilor sociale.


Pârvu Florin wrote ...

Contractul social dintre elite si cei condusi functioneaza pana cand elitele il incalca, tragandu-si prea mult din ce produce societatea. Cand si cand, el, contractul, se reajusteaza prin revolutii. In momentul asta, problema esentiala a lumii asteia, din care deriva toate celelalte, e distributia extrem de inechitabila a bogatiei, mai inechitabila decat, cred, oricand in istorie LINK LINK .
Am mai spus undeva pe acest forum, ca specie producem mai mult, mai bine, mai repede decand oricand in istoria noastra, dar nimic din acest mai mult, mai repede, mai bine nu se vede in viata a 80-90% din populatia planetei.

Daca te uiti la orice statistici referitoare la produse de lux, pur si simplu au explodat in ultimii cativa ani.

Nu mai reusesc sub nici o forma sa gasesc un articol despre evolutia vanzarilor de ceasuri pe la un milion de euro bucata, dar statisticile din respectivul articol aratau ca un trend asemanator celui de acum (cresteri extrem de sustinute ale pietei, urmate anul trecut de un declin usor) a avut loc, coincidenta sau nu, la sfarsitul anilor 1920 - inceputul anilor 1930.


Deci pana la urma nu avem opinii atat de diferite...

Back to top
mobydick
Wed May 15 2019, 11:42PM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...
...Edit: pana una alta, haideti sa va dau dumneavoastra si cititorilor acestui topic o informatie care va va ajuta sa va faceti o idee unde a ajuns machine-learning.

Jocul de sah a fost timp de milenii o competite a inteligentei si creativitatii, atribute presupus specific umane.

In 1997, campionul mondial de atunci, Garry Kasparov, a mancat pentru prima data bataie de la un computer, Deep Blue de la IBM.

In cativa ani, oamenii au devenit complet irelevanti in competitia asta.

In 2017, o alta borna a fost depasita, programul Google Alpha Zero a invins programul Stockfish 8.

Stockfish 8 a fost campion mondial un an inainte si era un program care inmagazina toate partidele, toate strategiile, toate mutarile care s-au jucat vreodata si au fost inregistrate.

La debutul partidelor, Google Alpha Zero nu stia decat miscarile elementare ale pieselor, dar era inzestrat cu toate principiile de machine-learning care il ajutau sa invete.

Stiti cat timp i-a trebuit lui Google Alpha Zero sa invete sah suficient de bine incat sa invinga cel mai performant program de sah?

Patru ore. LINK

Si la ce va asteptati, pentru viitor, din partea unei masini inteligente daca a fost invatata de catre om ca "o competitie a inteligentei si creativitatii" are ca scop ELIMINAREA adversarului ?!...
Back to top
Pârvu Florin
Wed May 15 2019, 11:51PM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
Aveti aici LINK un ipotetic scenariu...

Atentie marita!!!

Ce cititi mai sus este O FICTIUNE!
Back to top
mobydick
Thu May 16 2019, 12:05AM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...
...
Deci pana la urma nu avem opinii atat de diferite...

Tocmai de aceea, afirmatia conform careia Internetul impreuna cu volumul urias de informatie utilizat de acesta si accesibil maselor largi, ar pune in pericol democratia, mi se pare o gluma, cu atat mai mult cu cat intuiti ca "nu avem opinii atat de diferite".
Back to top
mobydick
Thu May 16 2019, 12:12AM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...
...
Ce cititi mai sus este O FICTIUNE!

Sunt obisnuit deja, din postarile anterioare, ca orice propuneti dvs spre atentie sa fie o fictiune!
Back to top
mobydick
Thu May 16 2019, 12:36AM
Registered Member #26293
Joined: Wed May 08 2019, 09:12AM

Posts: 11
Thanked 0 time in 0 post
Pârvu Florin wrote ...

Aveti aici LINK un ipotetic scenariu...


Oricum, nicio relevanță cu tema discutiei. Asadar, cu permisiunea dvs., consider subiectul inchis.
Stima!
Back to top
Pârvu Florin
Thu May 16 2019, 01:16AM
Iubesc Romania cu o ura adanca ! Fiindca nu este asa cum ar trebui sa fie! Asa cum poate sa fie!

Registered Member #1287
Joined: Wed Dec 10 2008, 11:28AM

Posts: 2130
Thanked 661 time in 426 post
Am spus, reiau, si subliniez!

Nu internetul in sine e problema, ci combinatia letala in momentul asta dintre

1. faptul ca producem o enorma cantitate de date care ajung in posesia unor grupuri extrem de restranse si dificil de controlat
si
2. progresul din ce in ce mai accelerat al tehnologiilor care permit prelucrarea acestei cantitati enorme de date si fac posibila supreavegherea, controlul si manipularea la o scara cum nu s-a mai intamplat niciodata in istorie LINK si mai cu seama LINK



[ Edited Thu May 16 2019, 01:33AM ]
Back to top
1 User said Thank to Pârvu Florin for this Post :
 Lt_M (21 May 2019, 09:51)
truepride
Mon May 20 2019, 04:26PM
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Registered Member #996
Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 11:32PM

Posts: 3434
Thanked 254 time in 183 post
@ Florin,
As tinde sa spun ca dvs la fel ca si mine sunteti animat de patriotism. Eu vad patriotismul ca un sumum de valori pozitive unele traditionale dar altele nu care ne permit sa actionam intr-un anumit mod, intr-un interes comun girat de acele valori. Achiesarea la valori este un factor inclusiv, deci acceptul a ceva mult mai mare ca noi, pe cand nationalismul este strict legat de natiunea apartinatoare unde factorul alegere nu exista. Desigur istoric vorbind secolul XIX-a si cristalizarea natiunii a reprezentat un pas evolutiv depasind ideea de religie ca factor guvernant in relatile interstatale. Pana la acesta cristalizare, importanta in economia functionarii statului era biserica de care apartii, religia find cea datatoare de drepturi dar si obligatii.
Va sun sincer ca ma simt mai apropiat de un cetatean roman precum dl Presedinte al Romaniei decat de un conational de-al meu lenes, etern doritor al triplarii ajutorului social. Nu fac campanii electorale doamne fereste dar mi-a fost cel mai comod exemplu de etnic german, etnici care au fost locuitori al unei parti din Romania de cam 800 de ani. Tot nationalismul il vad ca motivul pentru care oameni precum Lazar Seineanu au fost marginalizati si respinsi ca aveau origini mai putin romanesti.
Fascismul il vad ca o militarizare a societatii nenecesara, pe o fundatie nationalista. Il vad ca pe o violenta impusa in societate in detrimentul dialogului tot pe criteriul nationalismului. Observ in egala masura ca evolutiv nationalismul este premergator unei structuri totalitare, nu neaparat fasciste ca atare national-comunismul find totusi o definitie destul de buna a epocii Ceausescu.
In lini mari ma raliez presedintelui Macron si speechului sau:
Armistice had come

It was the end of four long and terrible years of deadly fighting. The armistice, however, was not peace. And in the East, for several years, horrifying battles continued.

Here, on the same day, the French and their Allies celebrated their victory. They had fought for their homeland and for freedom. For this, they had accepted all manner of sacrifices and sufferings. They had experienced a hell that no one can imagine.

We should take a moment to recall this immense procession of combatants, soldiers from the metropolis and the empire, legionaries, and Garibaldians, marching with foreigners from all over the world.

And all the others, all the others who are ours, rather to whom we belong, and whose names we can read on each monument, from the sun-drenched heights of Corsica to the valleys of the Alps, from Sologne to the Vosges, from the Pointe du Raz to the Spanish border. Yes, one France, rural and urban, bourgeois, aristocratic and popular, from all persuasions, where the priest and the anticlerical suffered side by side, and whose heroism and pain created us.

During these four years, Europe teetered on the brink of suicide. Humanity sank into the hideous labyrinth of merciless killings, in a hell that swallowed up all the fighters, regardless of their side, regardless of their nationality.

From the very next day of the armistice began the sombre count of the dead, the wounded, the maimed, the missing. Here, in France, as well as in each country, the families waited in vain for months for the return of a father, a brother, a husband, a fiancé, and among these absent, were also admirable women engaged alongside the combatants.

10 million dead. 6 million injured and maimed. 3 million widows. 6 million orphans. Millions of civilian victims. One billion shells fired on the soil of France alone.

The world discovered the extent of wounds that the zeal of fighting had obscured. To the tears of the dying, succeeded those of the survivors. Because the whole world had come to fight on France’s soil. Young men from all provinces and overseas territories, young men from Africa, the Pacific, the Americas, and Asia came to die – far from their families, in villages whose names they did not even know. Millions of witnesses from all nations recounted the horror of the fighting; the stench of the trenches; the desolation of the battlefields; the cries of the wounded in the night; the destruction of a flourishing countryside where only the charred silhouette of trees remained. Many of those who returned had lost their youth, their ideals, their zest for life. Many were disfigured, blind, amputated. Winners and losers then plunged for a long time in the same grief.

1918 – that was a hundred years ago. It seems distant. And yet, it was yesterday!

Madness of men

I have traversed the lands of France where the fiercest battles took place. In these rural stretches of my country, I have seen the still bleak and barren lands of the battlefields. I have seen the devastated villages that had no inhabitants left to rebuild them, and whose every stone is a testament to the madness of men.

I have seen on our monuments the litany of names of Frenchmen alongside the names of foreigners who died under the French sun. I have seen the corpses of our soldiers buried under a nature once again innocent, as I had seen in mass graves, the mingled bones of German soldiers and French soldiers, who during an icy winter had killed each other for a few metres of land.

The traces of this war have never been obliterated—neither in the lands of France, nor in those of Europe and the Middle East, nor in the memory of men across the world.

Let us remember! Let us not forget! For the memory of these sacrifices exhorts us to be worthy of those who died for us, so that we might live free!

Let us remember: let us not take away what was pure, ideal, and noble; the principles of patriotism of our elders. This vision of France as a generous nation, of France as a project, of France as the bearer of universal values, was, in those dark hours, exactly the opposite of the selfishness of a people who look only at their own interests. For patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism. In saying “our interests first, whatever happens to the others,” you erase the most precious thing a nation can have, that which makes it alive, that which causes it to be great and that which is most important: its moral values.

It is these values and these virtues that have sustained those we honour today, those who sacrificed themselves in the battles in which the nation and democracy had involved them. It is these values, these virtues that were their strength because they guided their hearts.

The lesson of the Great War cannot be that of the resentment of one people against another. It is a deeply-rooted lesson that compels one to think about the future and to think about the essential.

Since 1918, our predecessors have tried to build peace. They conceived the initial international co-operation, they dismantled empires, recognized many nations and redrew borders; they even dreamed of a political Europe.

Spirit of revenge

But humiliation, the spirit of revenge, economic and moral crises have fuelled the rise of nationalism and totalitarianism. Twenty years later, war came once again to ravage the roads of peace.

Here, today, peoples of the whole world, on this sacred tombstone, the sepulchre of our Unknown Soldier, see how many of your leaders have gathered!

Each of them leads, in turn, their long cohort of fighters and martyrs from their people. Each of them is the face of the hope for which an entire generation of youths accepted to die, of a world finally restored to peace, a world in which friendship between peoples prevails over combative passions, a world where men’s words must ring louder than the clash of arms, where the spirit of conciliation prevails over the temptation of cynicism, where forums allow the enemies of yesterday to engage in dialogue and cement a common understanding, the pledge of a harmony finally possible.

This, on our continent, is called the friendship forged between Germany and France and this desire to build a foundation of common ambitions. It is called the European Union, a union freely agreed on, unprecedented in history, delivering us from our civil wars. It is called the United Nations Organisation, guarantor of a spirit of cooperation to protect the common goods of a world whose destiny is inextricably linked and which has learned from the painful failures of the League of Nations as well as from the Treaty of Versailles. It is this certainty that the worst is never assured as long as there are men and women of goodwill. Let us relentlessly, unashamedly, fearlessly, be these women and men of goodwill!

I know that the old demons are resurfacing, ready to carry out their work of chaos and death. New ideologies are manipulating religions, advocating a contagious obscurantism. History sometimes threatens to take its tragic course again and compromise our legacy of peace, which we believed to have conclusively sealed with the blood of our ancestors.

May this anniversary be the day when eternal fidelity to our dead is renewed! Let us once again take the oath of nations to place peace above all, for we know its price, Its weight, Its exacting demands.

All of us, political leaders, we must on November 11, 2018, reaffirm before our peoples our real, immense responsibility, that of passing on to our children the world that previous generations have dreamed of.

Let us count our hopes instead of opposing our fears. Together, we can ward off the spectre of global warming, poverty, hunger, disease, inequality, ignorance that threatens us. We have started this fight and we can win it: let’s continue it because victory is possible.

Rising anti-intellectualism

Together, we can break with the new “betrayal of the intellectuals” that is at work, the one that feeds the untruths, accepts the injustices that undermine our peoples, fuels the extremes and contemporary obscurantism.

Together, we can bring about the extraordinary blossoming of science, art, trade, education, and medicine that I see stirring everywhere in the world. Because, if we want it, our world is at the dawn of a new epoch, of a civilization bearing the ambitions and faculties of man to the loftiest heights. To ruin this hope by a fascination for withdrawal, violence, and domination would be an error for which future generations would rightly ascribe historical responsibility on us. Here, today, let us face the judgment of the future with dignity. France knows what she owes to her fighters and all the fighters who came from across the world. She bows to their greatness. France respectfully and solemnly salutes the dead of the other nations that she had once fought against. She stands by their side.

“It is but in vain that our feet detach themselves from the soil that holds the dead,” wrote the poet Guillaume Apollinaire.

May the tombs in which they rest flourish with the certainty that a better world is possible if we so wish, if we so decide, if we so build, if we so demand with all our soul.

On this November 11, 2018, one hundred years after a massacre whose scar is still visible on the face of the world, I thank you for this gathering and fraternity.

May this gathering not be only for a day. This fraternity, my friends, in fact, urges us to conduct side-by-side the only worthy fight: the fight for peace, the fight for a better world.

Long live peace between peoples and between States!

Long live the free nations of the world!

Long live the friendship between peoples!

Long live France!

Emmanuel Macron is the President of France. This is an edited translation of the speech he delivered at a gathering of world leaders, marking the end of World War I 100 years ago

Back to top
1 User said Thank to truepride for this Post :
 Lt_M (21 May 2019, 09:51)
truepride
Mon May 20 2019, 04:45PM
Fiat justitia ruat caelum

Registered Member #996
Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 11:32PM

Posts: 3434
Thanked 254 time in 183 post
@Moby Dick, as presupune ca nu ati veniti aici sa puneti o eticheta. Eticheta pe post de concluzie ne ajuta cu absolut nimic, eventual ne ajuta in identificarea unei persoane care are ocupatie principala trollingul.
Daca scopul dvs era altul, probabil va incepeati incursiunea pe acest forum cu "buna ziua" si mai apoi cu argumente cu privire la modul in care vedeti lumea.Pe aici, respectiv forumul SF, nu se detine adevarul pe persona fizica. V-ati multumit dupa cum spuneam cu o eticheta si cu o insulta. Pe de alta parte mentionati decizii, si permiteti-mi sa va reintorc aprecierea in acest conetxt. Daca dvs v-ati format decizia prin care etichetati doi oameni pe baza unor informatii atat de efemere, nu aveti nici cea mai mica intelegere fata de procesul decizional si factorii infromativi contributori.
Daca tot va plac metaforele, desi cu greu as extinde dexul pana acolo, pareti sa aveti abilitatea in a diferentia vehiculul cu tractiune mecanica, utilizat deci in scopul de a deplasa oameni si marfuri mai rapid si nu calare pe un cal in detrimentul uciderii a 80 de persoane, tot prim mijlocul vehicul cu tractiune mecanica din 2016, Nisa, Franta.
Deci nu suntem atat de naivi incat sa blamam tehnologia pentru ceea ce face omul, chiar daca in ambele sitatii atat cea metaforica fortat cat si cea reala respectivele elemente tehnologice au fost proiectate pentru a face viata mai usoara omului.

[ Edited Mon May 20 2019, 05:08PM ]
Back to top
1 User said Thank to truepride for this Post :
 Lt_M (21 May 2019, 09:51)
Go to page
  <<        >>   

Jump:     Back to top

Syndicate this thread: rss 0.92 Syndicate this thread: rss 2.0 Syndicate this thread: RDF
Powered by e107 Forum System uses forum thanks

More links

Imnul SEMPER FIDELIS
Arhiva stiri
Trimite-ne o stire
Marsuri
Articole
2% pentru voi
Directia Generala Anticoruptie din MAI
Resboiu blog
Asociatia ROMIL
InfoMondo
Fundatia Pentru Pompieri
Liga Militarilor
Politistul
SNPPC
NATOChannel TV
Forumul politistilor
Forumul pompierilor
Asociatia "6 Dorobanti"
© 2006-2015 Proiect SEMPER FIDELIS
Site protejat la copierea cu soft-uri dedicate. Banare automata.Opiniile exprimate pe forum nu reprezinta si pozitia asociatiei fata de persoane, institutii si evenimente. Regulile de functionare a forumului sint formulate in baza prevederilor constitutionale si legilor in vigoare. Asociatia isi exprima pozitia fata persoane, institutii si evenimente prin fluxul de stiri publicat in prima pagina a site-ului.